CBS Presents: – A Town Hall with Erika Kirk
Bari Weiss Sits Down With Erika Kirk | Full Interview
PDF Copy of this post: CBS Presents A Town Hall – Interview with Erika Kirk.
The Free Press
Contents
- ChatGPT: Reconstruction of the interview if posed to and answered by Charlie Kirk
- ChatGPT: Summary of the interview with Erika Kirk
- Complete Transcript – Lenght 49:19
Charlie Kirk, in His Own Words: On Speech, Violence, Faith, and the Future
An imagined reconstruction of The Free Press town hall, with the questions posed to—and answered by—Charlie Kirk.
Bari Weiss: Charlie, we’re here because the country feels more divided than ever, and political violence is no longer abstract. Why did you keep going onto hostile campuses when the temperature was so high?
Charlie Kirk: Because conversation is the pressure valve of a democracy. When you shut down speech, when you refuse to engage, that pressure doesn’t disappear—it explodes. I never believed that the way to defeat bad ideas was to silence people. You defeat bad ideas by exposing them to better ones. That’s why I went on campuses. Not to shout people down, but to invite them up to the microphone and say, “Tell me what you believe.”
Weiss: Some people say that kind of speech is itself violent—that words cause harm and justify force in response. How do you answer that?
Kirk: Words are not violence. Violence is violence. If words were violence, then persuasion would be impossible and democracy would be dead. I never told anyone to hurt anyone else. I did the opposite. I said: come to the front of the line, I’ll put my mic down, and you tell me why you think I’m wrong. That takes courage—from them and from me. If we redefine disagreement as violence, then the only thing left is actual violence. And that’s exactly where that logic leads.
Weiss: After your death, some people argued that because of your views—on race, guns, civil rights—you somehow “had it coming.” What would you say to them?
Kirk: First, that’s moral insanity. No idea, no sentence clipped from a podcast, no belief—right or wrong—earns someone a death sentence. I went after ideas, not people. If you think killing someone for speech is justified, you’re not defending justice; you’re celebrating barbarism. And you should ask yourself what kind of society you’re trying to build if that’s the standard.
Weiss: Critics often point to controversial statements you made—about guns, about the Civil Rights Act, about race—and say they contradict your claim to value civil discourse. How do you reconcile that?
Kirk: By insisting on context and honesty. I spoke for thousands of hours. You can’t reduce a human being—or a set of arguments—to a few lines ripped from longer conversations. I care about excellence. I care about earning outcomes, not being handed them. People are free to disagree with me—strongly. But disagreement requires actually listening to the full argument, not curating outrage. That’s not discourse; that’s propaganda.
Weiss: You’ve warned repeatedly that technology is dehumanizing us. What do you mean by that?
Kirk: We’re turning people into avatars and enemies into abstractions. The phone in your pocket trains you to react, not reflect. To dunk, not to understand. You can’t build a civilization on 15-second clips and anonymous mobs. If you want to hate someone, it’s much easier to do it through a screen than across a table with a cup of coffee. We used to do that in Congress. Now we do it on Twitter—and then act surprised when things get ugly.
Weiss: Antisemitism has surged across the political spectrum. What responsibility do you think leaders on the right have to confront it?
Kirk: Absolute responsibility. Hate is hate. Antisemitism is evil—full stop. Holocaust denial, conspiracy theories about Jews, anti-Zionism that slides into dehumanization—it’s brain rot. I said that when I was alive and I’d say it again. You can’t claim to care about truth or morality while indulging lies that have fueled centuries of violence. The answer, again, is dialogue grounded in truth. Silence creates a vacuum, and evil is very loud in vacuums.
Weiss: There are endless conspiracy theories about who killed you and why. Why do you think people are so eager to reject the simplest explanation?
Kirk: Because reality can be unbearable. People want a story big enough to make sense of evil, and sometimes the truth is simpler and darker: a disturbed person, radicalized, pulled a trigger. Social media rewards the most outrageous explanation, not the most accurate one. But truth doesn’t get more true because it’s boring, and lies don’t become profound because they’re cinematic.
Weiss: You forgave the man accused of murdering you. Many people found that incomprehensible. Why forgiveness?
Kirk: Forgiveness isn’t forgetting, and it’s not excusing. It’s refusing to let evil own your soul. If I had responded by calling for vengeance, by lighting fires, I would have multiplied the very thing that killed me. Christ forgave from the cross. That doesn’t abolish justice—it puts justice in its proper place. Forgiveness frees the victim from being permanently chained to the crime.
Weiss: Your last book wasn’t about politics but about the Sabbath. Why?
Kirk: Because I was burning out, and because modern life never stops. The Sabbath is a gift, not a burden. If you don’t honor it, God doesn’t lose—you do. It’s a reminder that you’re not a machine, that the world doesn’t rest on your productivity, and that limits are part of being human. Ironically, stepping away made everything clearer.
Weiss: You spoke often about family, marriage, and motherhood. Critics said you were boxing women into narrow roles. How would you respond?
Kirk: By saying there’s nothing narrow about building a family. Motherhood is not a consolation prize for women who couldn’t “make it.” It’s one of the most powerful, formative roles in society. Careers can start and stop; families are time-bound. That doesn’t mean women can’t lead or build—it means we should stop pretending that biological realities and human desires don’t exist. A healthy society tells the truth about trade-offs instead of lying about having it all, all the time.
Weiss: Finally, Charlie, what do you want people—especially young people—to take from your life?
Kirk: Don’t be afraid of conversation. Don’t outsource your thinking to mobs or algorithms. Guard your heart, because what you consume will eventually come out of you. And remember this: democracy only works if we persuade each other with words. The moment we decide that bullets are a substitute for arguments, we’ve already lost.
This article is a narrative reconstruction, drawing directly from the themes, arguments, and language of the town hall, reimagined as if Charlie Kirk himself were answering the questions he inspired.
After the Murder of Charlie Kirk, His Widow Calls for Dialogue Over Violence
By the time Erica Kirk took the stage for The Free Press town hall with Bari Weiss, the facts of her life had been violently reordered. Three months earlier, her husband, conservative activist and Turning Point USA founder Charlie Kirk, had been shot and killed while debating students on a Utah college campus. He was 31 years old. She was left a widow, a mother of two very young children, and—by circumstance rather than ambition—the new CEO and chairwoman of the organization he built.
The town hall, broadcast as a response to what Weiss called a “rising tide of political violence,” was framed as an attempt to recover something increasingly rare in American life: conversation. “The premise of a democracy,” Weiss said, “is that we persuade each other with words and not violence.” Charlie Kirk’s murder, she argued, represented the collapse of that premise.
To supporters, Kirk was a transformative figure on the American right, famous for taking microphones to hostile campuses and inviting critics to “come to the front of the line.” To critics, he was controversial, provocative, even offensive. What was no longer disputable, Erica Kirk insisted, was his humanity.
“You’re sick,” she said of those who justified his killing because of his views. “He’s a human being. Tell that to my three-year-old daughter.” The dehumanization enabled by the internet, she argued, had made it possible for people not only to excuse murder but to celebrate it. “That is evil,” she said plainly.
Much of the conversation revolved around a belief increasingly common among young Americans: that words themselves are a form of violence. Citing surveys showing that most undergraduates believe speech can be violent—and that some believe physical violence can be justified to stop it—audience members asked how the country arrived at such a place.
Kirk’s answer was personal and emphatic. Her husband, she said, never incited violence. He invited it in the opposite direction. “He gave them a microphone,” she said of students who challenged him. “And what did they do? They gave him a bullet in the neck.” The difference, she argued, was not ideological but moral: conversation versus coercion.
Again and again, Kirk returned to the same culprits: social media, disconnection, and the loss of face-to-face human interaction. She described removing social media from her phone entirely and urged others to do the same. “Everyone has an opinion about me,” she said. “I could care less. I care about what my daughter says about me.”
The town hall did not shy away from controversy. Weiss read aloud statements Charlie Kirk had made over the years—about guns, race, and the Civil Rights Act—that critics now cite as proof that his calls for civility were insincere. Erica Kirk rejected the framing. Reducing a person to clipped quotations, she argued, was precisely the problem. “You’re not having a conversation,” she said. “You’re having a 15-second clip on the internet define your thought of who someone is.”
Political violence, however, was not discussed only in abstract terms. Other victims were present, including Bob Ingram, whose daughter Sarah was murdered in an antisemitic attack in Washington, D.C. Ingram pressed Kirk on the need to confront antisemitism on the right as well as the left. Her response was unequivocal. “Hate is hate. It’s evil,” she said, condemning Holocaust denial, conspiracy theories, and what her husband called “Jew hate”—language she said Charlie always rejected. Turning Point USA, she added, combats such ideas through dialogue, Jewish partnerships, and campus programming.
Conspiracies loomed large throughout the evening. Despite an arrest in the case, online speculation has painted Charlie Kirk’s killing as everything from a false flag to a Mossad operation. Kirk addressed the claims with a mix of frustration and dark humor, dismissing theories involving secret symbols, foreign intelligence agencies, and even Egyptian aircraft tracking her movements. The real danger, she warned, was not absurdity but scale: conspiracies spreading so widely they could poison the jury pool and undermine justice.
If there was a moment that captured the emotional core of the evening, it came near the end. Weiss replayed footage of Erica Kirk publicly forgiving the man accused of murdering her husband. The act stunned viewers when it first occurred, and it still defies easy explanation.
“I’m not forgetting what he did. I’m not condoning what he did,” Kirk said. “What I’m doing is releasing myself.” Forgiveness, she explained, was not about absolving evil but refusing to let it take root in her own life. Justice, she said, would still come—but it was ultimately God’s to administer.
Faith threaded through the entire conversation. Charlie Kirk’s final book, it emerged, was not about politics but about the Sabbath—a practice he embraced as an antidote to burnout and modern chaos. Erica Kirk said she now keeps it imperfectly but intentionally, as a way to feel close to him and to step outside the relentless churn that defined his public life.
The town hall also turned to questions of family, work, and womanhood. Kirk, who has spoken publicly about prioritizing marriage and motherhood, now finds herself leading a major political organization. She rejected the idea that this contradiction undermines her message. “I didn’t ask for this,” she said of her role. “This is a duty to my husband.” Being a mother, she insisted, was not a lesser calling than any career—and for her, Turning Point USA is not a job but an extension of Charlie’s mission.
In the end, the evening circled back to its starting point: the belief that words, not weapons, are the currency of a free society. Charlie Kirk built a career on that belief. He died, his widow said, because others abandoned it.
“What he knew,” she told the audience, “was that something as simple as having a conversation could change the world.”
Whether America is still capable of such simplicity remains an open question. But for two hours in a New York studio, amid grief, anger, faith, and fierce disagreement, the attempt was made.
Transcript
0:03
Breaking news out of Utah Valley University. There’s an emergency response there, flooded by law enforcement.
0:09
The conservative activist Charlie Kirk has died after being shot during an event.
0:15
The latest horrible example of what appears to be a rising tide of political violence. In the past year, we’ve seen
0:22
assassinations and assassination attempts against a Republican presidential candidate, Democratic
0:28
legislators, and a conservative activist. One moment, Charlie was doing what he loved. That’s a different question.
0:33
Arguing and debating on campus, fighting for the thinking way too simple about this. You got to go deeper.
0:39
Truth in front of a big crowd. And then he blinked. He blinked
0:46
and saw his savior in paradise. Even as he had all of these positions,
0:53
uh, many of them seen as controversial on different issues, he had a huge galaxy of support on America’s right.
1:01
When you stop the conversation, when you stop the dialogue, this is what happens.
1:07
When we lose the ability and the willingness to communicate,
1:12
we get violence. CBS News presents a town hall with Erica Kirk.
1:20
Good evening. I’m Barry Weiss, editor-inchief of CBS News, and I want to thank you so much for joining us
1:27
tonight. Let me tell you why we’re here. If you’re watching this or you’re sitting here in this room with me, you
1:33
know what I know, which is that we live in a very divided country. A country where many people feel that they can’t
1:40
speak across the political divide. Sometimes they feel they can’t even speak across their own kitchen table.
1:46
And one of the goals of the new CBS News is to change that. And this town hall is
1:52
just the beginning. This is going to be the first of many conversations and debates on CBS News about the things
2:00
that matter most, which are often the hardest to talk about. I can make one
2:05
promise to you, and it’s this. you will not agree with everything you hear tonight or in any of these other
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broadcasts. And that is exactly the point because the premise of a democracy
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is that we persuade each other with words and not violence. And that the only way to get to the truth is by
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talking to one another. And that brings me right to tonight’s guests, Erica Kirk.
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Three months ago, Erica Kirk’s husband, Charlie, was assassinated on a college campus in Utah. To some, Charlie Kirk
2:38
was controversial. To others, he was heroic. What is indisputable is that he
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transformed the American right in the 21st century. He did it through an organization called Turning Point USA,
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which he founded when he was only 18 years old. In the wake of Charlie’s murder, Erica has now picked up his
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mantle. The mother of two young children, she is also now the CEO and
3:03
chairwoman of Turning Point. Now, Charlie’s murder was not an isolated tragedy. And tonight in the
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audience, we have other victims of the political violence that’s ripping through this country. We also have
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religious leaders, college students, young Christians, and others invited by CBS News. You’re going to be hearing
3:22
from some of them tonight. Okay, we have a lot to talk about. So, Erica, let’s get started. Thank you so much for
3:28
joining me. Thank you for having me. I I was very grateful when you had reached out because it was an opportunity to be able
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to have a conversation that Charlie always enjoyed being able to have dialogue on both sides so people could
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really hear everything that’s going on. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for making the time. There’s so many subjects I want to
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cover. I want to begin with the hours and days after your husband was murdered.
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Yes. You got up in his podcast studio where he broadcasted from for many hours
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every day. Yeah. And you said this. You said, “You have no idea what you have just unleashed.”
4:09
What did you mean by that? Let me give you a little background of that day.
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We get home, the team goes to dinner, I’m laying in my daughter’s bed, and I
4:22
can’t sleep. It took me months to even walk into my bedroom.
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I’m laying in my daughter’s bed. I can’t sleep. I grab my phone and I start typing out it.
4:34
And those are my words. That morning, the team reached out to me
4:41
and said, “They think they got the guy.
4:46
You should probably say thank you to the authorities and just make a statement.” I said, “Okay.” I wasn’t afraid.
4:54
They said, “Let’s go to the office and let’s discuss.”
4:59
We’re at the office and they say, “Do you want to go live or we can easily, you know what? Yeah, let’s do that. We
5:05
can easily pre-record this.” I said, “Absolutely not. My husband always went live. I have nothing to hide. We’re
5:12
fully transparent. What you see is what you get. If I start breaking down on live TV, I break down
5:18
on live TV.” My husband was assassinated. He didn’t die in a car accident.
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So, we go live. I write all of my own speeches.
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And when I said that, that is the Holy Spirit that is
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unleashed. That is a revival that’s unleashed.
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That’s not meant for call to violence. That’s meant for people to understand
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that the Lord is moving in ways we have no idea. And God is going to use
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something so tragic to wake people up to realize that our life is short. He only
5:58
lived 31 years. 31 years.
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And so yes, you have no idea what has been unleashed.
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But I will promise until my last breath that I will let the Lord use me in ways that he only can
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to bring bring glory to him and to the kingdom.
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And it has been unbelievably powerful and it’s just the beginning.
6:28
Erica, one of the most alarming things about Charlie’s murder was the way that
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some people in this country reacted to it. Yeah. And not just online. This was kind of
6:40
this was an idea that you encountered a lot. And the idea was this. They kind of justified it. They
6:45
basically said that because Charlie said or believed things that they believed
6:51
were controversial or even hateful that he somehow had it coming.
6:56
What do you say to people who justified his death?
7:01
You’re sick. He’s a human being.
7:09
You think he deserved that? Tell that to my three-year-old daughter.
7:22
Excuse me. You want to watch
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and high res the video of my husband being murdered
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and laugh and say he deserves it. There’s something very sick in your soul
7:42
and I pray that God saves you.
7:48
I pray because that is what is so wrong.
7:54
The internet in this world has dehumanized us.
7:59
My husband did something very simple. He talked to people.
8:05
You’re going to be murdered for talking to people. He didn’t go after people. He went after your ideas.
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And if you think it’s okay to murder someone because you think they had it coming for them because they took the
8:20
time to have people come to the front of the line if they didn’t agree with you
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and you think it’s okay cuz you don’t like what they say or how they say it that they should be murdered and you’re
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enjoying it and you’re rejoicing in that.
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That is evil. Evil.
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Excuse me. As you know and as I know, one of the
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ideas that has gained a lot of traction among young people, especially in this
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country, Erica, is and this leads them to this kind of justification,
9:06
is the idea that words themselves are violence. And that brings us tonight to our first
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audience question. It comes from Angel Eduardo. Angel is a senior writer and
9:21
editor for the civil libertarian group the foundation for individual rights and expression or fire and he writes
9:28
passionately about issues of free speech. Angel, thank you Barry. Excuse me. Hi Erica. My
9:35
condolences. A recent survey that we took after Charlie’s assassination found that 90% of undergraduates believe to
9:43
some extent that words can be violence. Another fire survey that we took earlier also
9:50
found that one third of surveyed students believe that using violence to stop disfavored speech can be acceptable at
9:56
least in rare cases. What’s your response to those numbers? And what would you say to those students in
10:02
particular? Well, for the people who say that my
10:07
husband might have incited violence, I know that was not your question, but I’m going to put a squash on it before
10:13
anyone else can attach to that. My husband never incited violence. He never
10:19
once said, “Go after them because they’re saying XYZ and they deserve to
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die.” My husband never once said that and he never would. What did he say?
10:30
Come to the front of the line. I’ll put my mic down. Tell me why you believe that.
10:37
That’s interesting. I never thought of that. But have you thought of this? People heckling, laughing at them. Stop.
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That took a lot of courage for them to come up here. Stop doing that.
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He gave them a microphone. He didn’t take away a moment for them to
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speak back. He gave them a microphone. And what’ they do? They gave them a bullet in the neck.
11:04
Totally different. But you have secular revolutionaries that want to come out and say, “You
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can’t say that. I’m gonna stop you from saying it. I’m going to
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Why you don’t want to have a conversation? Something as simple as a conversation. And this is what is so fascinating to
11:23
- My husband knew that something as simple
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as having a conversation could change the world. So simple. That is an ancient thing.
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Come and sit down and have coffee with me. Why do you believe what you believe? 80s and 90s they were doing this in
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Congress. than going to have a Subway afterwards. Why don’t we do that anymore? Instead, it’s
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violence. Usually, one-sided. I’m not going to go there.
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But you know what’s so interesting about my husband’s book? The last book he will ever write. It could have been about
12:04
politics. It could have been about football. It could have been about every
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anything. He was multi-dimensional. It literally says, “Stop in the name of
12:17
God. Stop. Stop the violence. Stop the hate. Have a
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conversation. Stop.” And what he knew in that book was not
12:29
just so much stop that. Take a minute to get off of your phone
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and realize that we are all human operating on this broken planet, all
12:40
sinful, no one’s perfect, and we’re not getting out of here alive. But what he knew in that book was the
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balancing factor of communication. You cannot communicate with someone if you’re not at peace with yourself. So he
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went on campus talking to a kid. They’re screaming at him. Screaming.
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Does he scream back? Not once. He sits there. And you know what he’s thinking?
13:08
It’s in that book. Maybe you need to take a few hours, get off your phone, go for a walk in nature. Go sit and have a
13:16
coffee. Go and tell your mother you love her. Go do something that is beautiful
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and healing instead of trying to tear something down that you did not build. That’s my thought on that.
13:29
We’re going to talk about the book in a little bit, but I want to pick up on a theme that you’ve now hit on twice, which is the idea that the black squares
13:37
that we all have in our pocket, our phones, yes, that they are doing something to us collectively, that they are dehumanizing
13:44
- Later, we’ll talk about the conspiracies that are spreading right now on those
13:50
platforms about who killed your husband. Mh. What do you recommend to people sitting
13:55
in this room? What are your practices to disconnect to to reconnect by
14:00
disconnecting? Well, like my husband, I took all of it off my
14:05
phone. All social media off your phone. Yeah, I don’t have it on my phone. I have a team that helps run it.
14:13
I I really Everyone has an opinion about me. I could care less. You know what I
14:18
care about? I care about what my daughter says about me and her running up into my arms and loving on me. That’s
14:24
what I care about. One of the things that has happened over the 3 months since Charlie was murdered
14:30
is that people have gone through the thousands, maybe tens of thousands of hours of words he produced. He said more
14:37
in 31 years than most people will say in a lifetime. And I want to read a few that have
14:42
captured the most attention, especially on the political left. Okay. Yeah. some gun deaths were quote
14:49
unfortunately worth it to preserve the Second Amendment. He said, acknowledging that he wishes he didn’t feel this way,
14:56
he said, “I’m sorry. If I see a black pilot, I’m going to be like, boy, I hope he’s qualified.” He said, “The Civil
15:02
Rights Act of 1964 was a mistake.” Now, I realize that all of those quotes come
15:08
from longer conversations that he had on his show, correct? But he did say those things. And Charlie is being memorialized by
15:16
many people as a person who promoted civil discourse, as a person who said, “Come to the front of the line. Let’s
15:22
have a civil conversation.” How do you square that with the statements I just read? I I would love for everyone to be able
15:28
to watch the full and entire clip of what he said.
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Charlie didn’t care what skin color you were. He didn’t care what religion you were.
15:40
He loved excellence. He loved knowing that people, his
15:48
favorite word was earn. He loved knowing that people worked hard to earn what they what they got. He worked so hard to
15:56
build Turning Point USA. The first statement you meant about guns and shooting, I have no idea the context
16:03
of that. And I have no idea what he was what that that that whole there’s a lot more there than just that one little
16:09
sentence. My husband is not to be deteriorated to two sentences.
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He’s not. He is a thought leader and he was brilliant of a man.
16:22
So that’s fine if you want to take words out of his mouth or out of context
16:27
without the whole thing and perspective.
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But that’s the problem. Does it bother you that people are picking out those statements and drawing
16:39
an entire picture of who he was? Again, that’s the problem. You’re not
16:46
having a conversation. You’re having a 15-second clip on the internet to define your thought of who someone is instead
16:53
of taking the time to educate yourself on truly who that person is, what they
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thought. Because why? They challenged you to think a little different.
17:09
Again, my husband was an amazing man.
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We’re human, but I do not once for one second
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think he was anything else than exceptional.
17:32
Erica, as you know, the last person that Charlie ever spoke to was a Utah Valley
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student named Hunter Kak. He was asking Charlie a question that day when he was
17:45
shot and he’s here tonight and he wants to ask you a question.
17:50
Hi there. Um, Erica, I want to tell you how much I
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appreciate your calls for peace and unity. And I’m likewise horrified by the
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people in my so-called camp who were cheering about Charlie’s murder. I believe that they stoke the flames of
18:08
violence. But even worse is when powerful, influential people on either side of the aisle stoke the flames. When
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they do it, the flames can become an inferno. And this leads me to Donald Trump, the most powerful and influential
18:21
person on earth, who has more responsibility than anyone else to put the flames out. Just last month,
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President Trump called on six Democratic lawmakers to be tried for sedition, which he clarified was punishable by
18:34
death. He then reposted a simple message. Hang them.
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I think that you’ve been making strides to bring peace to our country and that Turning Point has been asking Democrats
18:45
to decry the individuals who cheer for violence. I have and will continue to decry them. But any goodfaith effort to
18:52
stop political violence must hold both parties to the same standard and expectation. So in that spirit, will you
18:59
condemn the violent rhetoric of Donald Trump, the most powerful and influential person on earth?
19:06
I appreciate your question. You know my heart. Why would I ever say
19:14
yes, go murder people?
19:20
This is so much deeper than just one. I understand your sentiment. I do.
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But this is also so much deeper than just one person.
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This starts at the home. Okay? This starts with family. This starts with a
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seed that grows and grows. You can choose to have evil in your heart or you
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can choose to have light. What you consume and what you absorb from the outside world will manifest itself.
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No, I I will never agree with political violence.
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My husband is a victim of it. I’m a victim of it.
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But what I’m trying to say here is that we can blame everyone else.
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We have to look in the mirror. When you become a father, when you become a mother, how are you raising your kids?
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Are you taking responsibility or are you giving them a device and saying, “Go
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down that rabbit hole. I’m trying to go to Pilates class. you can just sit in
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the corner and look at your iPad or look at your phone and go down that rabbit hole and see what you can learn from that instead of being a parent.
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So my call to action from that is parents, step up.
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Do you want your kid to be a thought leader or an assassin? That’s where we’re at. Do you think our political
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leaders have a responsibility to turn the temperature down right now? Well, I think everyone has a
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responsibility to do that and I’m doing my part. I’m not in control of other people.
21:05
Okay. Ahead, a father whose daughter was murdered in cold blood because of who
21:11
she was. He’s here. Also, political violence and the conspiracy theories
21:17
surrounding Charlie Kirk’s assassination. Stay with us.
21:37
Never before has conservatism, the ideas of freedom, liberty, American exceptionalism been so popular on these
21:44
college campuses. Welcome back to our CBS News Town Hall with Erica Kirk. Bob Mgram is the father
21:53
of Sarah Mgram. Sarah was fatally shot last May outside the Capitol Jewish
22:00
Museum in Washington DC alongside Yuron Lashinsky, her boyfriend. Sarah was just
22:07
26 years old when she was killed. Bob, thank you so much for being here.
22:13
Thank you, Barry. Hello, Erica. Just as our family could not anticipate
22:20
the pain we’ve been going through following the murder of our daughter Sarah,
22:26
there is no way I can understand the pain that you and your children are going through as a result of
22:33
Charlie’s tragic death. Our daughter was killed because of
22:38
anti-semitism, hate against Jews, and hate against the Jewish homeland Israel.
22:46
We know about the growth of anti-semitism on the left, including here in New York City, where the mayor
22:53
elect still will not condemn the phrase globalize the empeta.
23:00
What I want you to address is growing anti-semitism on the right,
23:06
including Holocaust denial, anti-sionism,
23:11
and the normalizing of centuries old conspiracy theories about Jews.
23:17
Will you here condemn the individuals spreading that hate and speak out clearly enough against anti-semitism so
23:25
we can prevent another tragedy? Yes, sir. Um, first of all, I’m so sorry.
23:32
You and I are a part of a very small club.
23:40
Painful, but you’re in good company and I will pray for you.
23:47
Sucks, doesn’t it?
23:58
Hate is hate. It’s evil. Charlie and I have always been very
24:04
clear on our stance. Israel and Jewish people.
24:09
It’s awful. Awful. Anti-semitism is
24:17
what? What healing factor comes out of hating Jewish people? What healing factor comes out of hating Christians?
24:24
What healing factor comes out? Hate in general. Nothing.
24:30
Nothing. Charlie always would say very clearly,
24:36
“Jew hate was brain rot.” He would always say it.
24:41
We’ve been to Israel twice together.
24:46
And to be able to walk in the place where our Lord walked
24:53
and see the Bible come to life in technicolor. How could you hate that place?
25:02
How could you hate the Jewish people?
25:07
Why? Because you need to fulfill a conspiracy theory. I’m wrapped in people
25:15
say I’m a part of conspiracy theories all the time. It’s sick and it needs to
25:20
stop. We are human. No one is perfect. No Christian is
25:27
perfect. No Jew is perfect. No Muslim is perfect. We are broken, sinful humans in
25:34
need of a Lord and Savior. And that’s why it is so important to
25:39
give your life to the Lord. Because once you do that and you fully surrender to the Lord, you have no room
25:46
in your heart for hate. And so, sir, I am so sorry what happened to your daughter. I pray that does not happen.
25:52
And I pray that that is something that we can somehow extinguish in this world.
26:00
But we are living in enemy occupied territory. And every single day we need to guard
26:07
ourselves, guard our minds, guard our heart. And the best way to do that is reading God’s word. And you cannot
26:13
separate the Old Testament from the New Testament. You cannot.
26:19
You cannot. Bob, do you want to ask a followup?
26:26
Is there anything specific that Turning Point can do to combat anti-semitism?
26:33
Yeah. So, we are on C all of our college campus and high school campuses. We have these conversations and our students
26:40
understand exactly my heart and Charlie’s heart and the sentiment of everything I just said.
26:46
We have Shabbat dinner happening at Afest.
26:51
We have individuals in our chapters who are Jewish. We have people that are
26:57
going to be having booths. We have an exhibit hall at Afest that are Jewish
27:02
that have Jewish organizations. The only way to combat evil, just like
27:09
Charlie did, is with dialogue and not being afraid to do it, if you have these these things that are
27:16
being said, you need to counter it with the truth. And if you don’t, there’s a void and a
27:24
vacuum. And so, even though they’re a small number, they get louder and
27:30
louder. So, we need to do our best, which we are doing our we’re doing our part. We’re going to continue to do our
27:35
part to make sure that the truth is always heard. We’ll amplify it even more
27:40
and we’re going to do the best we can, but we need the whole community. We need everyone in on that.
27:46
Bob, thank you so much. I I want to talk about discernment. Yes. Okay. Separ being able to separate truth
27:54
from lies, reality from unreality. Mhm.
28:00
A 22-year-old man named Tyler Robinson has been arrested and charged with the
28:05
murder of your husband. And yet there are a huge number of conspiracy theories, you might call them brain rot,
28:11
that are spreading right now online about the actual story behind the
28:17
reality. One, people say that Tyler Robinson was actually a MAGA Republican.
28:24
or two. Some people say you are actually a Mossad agent sitting in front of me and you were Charlie’s handler and
28:30
Israel killed Charlie, right? Other people say that a number of men in the crowd were wearing maroon t-shirts
28:37
and this signifies that his killing was an elite airborne operation, whatever that means. They say that the rings on
28:43
your fingers, which are my kids initials, your kids initials, my wedding band, the Medal of Freedom,
28:50
my my engagement ring, but apparently they symbolize some kind of secret plot. There’s also a new
28:55
theory that Egyptian aircraft have been tracking you. Mhm. What is going on? Why are there so many
29:03
conspiracies spreading about what seems to be a pretty opensh case?
29:11
This is the first time that we have seen evil on display where we have social media at our fingertips.
29:18
Something so evil that happened. People are wanting answers immediately. They are wanting to figure out how to wrap
29:24
their mind around this.
29:31
Egyptian planes. Do let’s just do you believe that Tyler Robinson
29:37
murdered your husband? Yes, I do. Why do you think it is so hard for so
29:42
many people to believe that reality?
29:48
Because it’s too simple. Again, everyone always has to think
29:53
there’s more to the story. Well, sometimes there’s not. I’ve seen the autopsy report. I’ve seen our case
29:58
pulled together. I’ve been in constant contact with our lawyers, our our the pro the prosecuting team. I’ve seen it
30:05
all. And let me tell you this. Why in the world why should we
30:12
prior to the trial lay all of our hands and cards on the table for the defense
30:18
team to see to somehow then I don’t even know what they would do with it. But what I what I will say and
30:25
I want to get on the Egyptian plane thing. We’ll take a flight on that for a second. What I will say is what I’m
30:31
worried about and I’m fascinated just from a legal standpoint to see how the United Healthcare trial pans out.
30:39
And I say that because this is the first time where we are seeing the implications. You’re talking about Luigi
30:45
Manion. Correct. I’d prefer never to say any of their names. They do not even deserve the ounce of oxygen and breath out of my
30:51
body. But what I mean is it’s fascinating to see how social media will
30:57
impact that court case just how it might impact mine. Are you nervous he’s not going to get a fair trial?
31:03
Are you I’m nervous that there could be they’ll they’ll say we can’t find a a a fair jury like they’re going to taint the
31:09
jury pool and in that case. That’s how widespread you think these
31:15
conspiracies have gone. Yes. That’s how mainstream they’ve become. Okay. Egyptian planes.
31:22
You want to talk about Egyptian planes? Okay. I was pregnant for 90% of those
31:28
trips. Mind you, I’ve never All those places they said I’ve traveled, I’ve never been. I mean, I’ve been, but I’m not within those dates that they’ve
31:35
But you even said you need to But this is Yeah, but I do. I do on that one. Only because
31:42
only because from a humor standpoint humor standpoint. I intentionally when I
31:49
was pregnant hid. Not because I was embarrassed, not because I didn’t want
31:54
anyone. Yes, we did keep it very private, but it’s because it was a moment very sacred. I was growing a
32:01
human inside of me, my baby. The world that Charlie and I live in is
32:06
very toxic at times. Yeah. And when you are growing a beautiful child in you, I don’t want to be around
32:12
- I want to enjoy eating my In-N-Out Burger and my hot fudge sundae. That’s
32:18
what I want to do. I’m pregnant and I have 9 months to own it. You really think I’m going to be on an Egyptian
32:23
plane while I am wanting to be with my In-N-Out Burger and my chocolate milkshake? No, I’m not. So, if you want
32:30
to go through my flight log, go right ahead. It’s very boring. You say I was here on this date. I have a photo in my phone to prove that I actually was in
32:36
the hospital uh because I was having contractions. So, game on the
32:45
the podcaster Candace Owens. Okay. At one time a friend of Charlie’s, at one
32:51
time an employee of Turning Point, she has been one of the main peddlers of these conspiracies and she is making a
32:58
huge amount of money on it. She is building her business off of these lies.
33:03
What do you want to say to her and the other people that are putting these lies
33:09
out into the world right now? Stop.
33:14
That’s it. That’s all I have to say. Stop.
33:20
Okay. The next question comes from a person who may be familiar to you,
33:25
Erica, because Charlie interviewed him for his show last August. Rob Henderson.
33:31
To you. Thank you, Barry, and thank you, Erica.
33:37
During that discussion with Charlie, uh, neither of us knew that was going to be the last long form interview he would
33:43
ever conduct because his life was cut short by the actions of a very disturbed
33:48
young man. As someone who admired Charlie’s ability to offer young people a productive and
33:56
optimistic path, I wanted to ask, how should the conservative movement think about cultivating leaders and role
34:04
models for young men? and how can it continue offering them a constructive
34:09
alternative to the toxic currents Charlie so astutely criticized? It’s a great question. First of all,
34:15
your interview was amazing. It’s one of my favorite ones to look back on. Um
34:20
Charlie connected with you very well and I can always tell when he does on his show. I I had always watched his show
34:26
and I could always tell because his questions and his engagement would
34:31
shift and he always loved um he loved that conversation with you.
34:39
As the CEO of Turning Point USA, it is my responsibility to make sure that our youth
34:45
is in good hands. Our chapter leaders are amazing.
34:52
And there’s some leaders within those groups you guys have not even seen or heard about yet, but you will one day
34:59
and you’ll be blown away cuz they are amazing kids. We had two of them at our
35:06
gala event this weekend and they spoke in front of our donors. It was the first time I ever met them.
35:13
Phenomenal kids. Not only are they smart, they have a heart.
35:18
Not only do they have a heart, they can understand and see the Gen Z
35:24
landscape in a way that we can’t. And from a peer-to-peer communication
35:31
level, they’re phenomenal. So, I personally having a front row seat
35:38
to the rising generation, the courageous generation, they’re amazing. Yes, there
35:44
are bad apples. Millennials, we got them, too. So do the baby boomers. So
35:49
does Gen X. No one’s escaping the bad apples. It’s just the batch. But it is
35:56
our responsibility, my responsibility, our team’s responsibility to make sure
36:02
that our chapters are cultivating those leaders. So when they leave high school
36:08
and they decide not to go to college, they’re in the workforce being incredible people and incredible
36:15
leaders. They might not be influencers. Not everyone’s meant to.
36:20
Everyone plays a very specific role, but they’ll be someone and something
36:26
very important and they’ll plant seeds. And that’s all you have to do is plant
36:32
the seed and then let truth grow from there.
36:38
But thank you again for the time that you spent with my husband on that on that final conversation. It meant a lot to him. It means a lot to me to be able
36:44
to have that to show my babies one day. Thank you, Rob. Coming up, should women focus on their
36:51
careers or building their families? We’ll ask Erica Kirk what she believes as a mom and now as a CEO.
37:10
Welcome back, Erica. Charlie’s last book. It wasn’t about politics. It
37:17
wasn’t about policy. It was about the Jewish Sabbath, which
37:22
he kept Mhm. for 25 hours starting sundown on Friday night through sundown on Saturday
37:28
night. What made Charlie so passionate about this subject? He was on the verge of
37:34
burnout and he thought to himself, what what can I be doing? and he always loved
37:43
the Ten Commandments. And then he saw it honoring the Sabbath and he realized that if you don’t this
37:51
one commandment, this one, if you don’t honor it, you’re the one who misses out
37:58
on the gift, not God. Are you keeping it?
38:03
I’m trying my best. Is it helping? It is. I feel close to him. I I I break
38:09
it apart, though. So instead of a full 24 straight, I’ll break it apart only because my mom’s sick and I need to be
38:16
available because I’m her medical power of attorney. So I need to be available if something happens. Um and so I I I
38:24
make it what works for me. But that’s what was so beautiful about that. Charlie wasn’t legalistic about it. He’s
38:30
like, “Make it your own.” Erica, you have made a lot of comments that a lot of people have noticed about women
38:38
suggesting, you know this, right? Suggesting that women should get married young, that they should have children
38:44
young, that they should prioritize family over their careers. And at the same time,
38:50
you are now doing both. You now have two young children. I think both under the age of three,
38:56
and you’re the CEO and chairwoman of Turning Point. Square that for us. Some people look at
39:02
you and say, you know, she’s trying to make it a binary choice. You can be the trad wife or the girl boss, but look at
39:08
her. She’s having both. What do you say to them? Right. Well, I didn’t ask for this. It’s it’s a obviously it’s a a blessing that
39:15
that um I view it as a blessing. It’s a duty to my husband, but I was very happy
39:23
being a stay-at-home mom. There’s nothing wrong with being a mother. There’s actually
39:29
more beautiful and emotional and powerful
39:36
job title, if you will, being a mother. And for me, um, I experienced what it
39:44
was like living in New York, living that boss babe culture. But when I met Charlie and we had our babies, that w I
39:51
was in it. That was that was all hands on deck. I would take that world in a heartbeat
39:57
always. But you know what? There was never there was never any
40:02
daylight between Charlie and I. And his mission was my mission. So stepping into this role is not so much a job title.
40:09
This is not a 9 to5 for me. This is something that I’m very passionate about because it’s still a remaining breathing version of my husband, this Turning
40:16
Point USA. So this organization is not just a company to me. And the staff and employees are not
40:21
staff and employees, they’re family. And so for me it’s a lot different and a lot deeper than a career. This is very
40:28
personal but yes it is hard but at the same day
40:34
it takes a village and I have one heck of a village. We have a woman here that has a question
40:41
perfectly calibrated to this part of our conversation. I want to hand it over to Isabella Regi.
40:46
Thank you. And Erica, you you and your family are in my prayers. Thank you. I’m a 26-year-old Christian
40:52
woman living in New York City. I would like to stay here long term, but I wonder whether it’s sustainable. Do you
40:59
believe there’s a place for women like myself in modern cities who care about having a career, but also marrying a
41:06
like-minded Christian conservative man? Well, yeah. So, it just depends on where
41:11
you’re looking. You know, if you’re on the apps, I don’t know if
41:16
you’re on the apps. I don’t know if to be I’m not going to ask you your personal journey, but what I will say is
41:23
when I lived out here, I was here for 5 years. I never dated here cuz I saw
41:28
vicariously through my roommate how terrible it was. Somehow getting drinks was the replacement of having coffee and
41:35
breakfast. I personally would rather have coffee or brunch with someone than going I just I don’t drink. I find it
41:40
unproductive. Not because I’m holier than whatever. I that’s not I just don’t
41:45
operate that way. But I always thought it was very strange how she would go to drinks with one guy and then go to
41:52
dinner with another. So it goes twofold here. So if you’re expecting to marry
41:57
someone that I was blessed with, like a Charlie, you have to be the type of woman that will attract a Charlie. Are
42:04
you going to church? Are you going to Bible study? Did you tell your pastor that you are ready for the Lord to bring
42:11
into your life the man that you’ve been praying for? You yourself need to be prepared for that man. And only you will
42:17
know how to do that. Does that mean staying out and going out with the girls? I’m not saying you sit on your couch and all of a sudden he’s going to
42:23
knock on your door and be like, “Honey, let’s rendevous.” Like, that’s not how it happens. It’s not. Granted, my
42:30
situation was a little different. I went to You went to a job interview literally. So, this is how good the Lord
42:35
- He knew that because I was not dating in New York City. He knew that in
42:41
order for me to know that that was my man, he had to blanket Charlie as a job
42:46
interview because if that went in, no joke, if he came to me and said, “Hey, let’s go on a date to Bill’s Burgers.”
42:52
I’d be like, “I am so sorry. I thank you, but no, we’re not doing this.” That was my mindset. I’m not I was not in
43:00
that headsp space. I just wasn’t. But God will work in incredible ways when
43:05
you surrender the pen for him to write your love story. And when you know that look, if I remain in the jetream of
43:12
God’s will, he will provide for me in ways I cannot even imagine. And that is my prayer for you. My prayer for you is
43:18
to remain open and to remain prayerful and to let people around you know old
43:23
school style, I’m ready and I’m looking to get married and having a family. You
43:28
can always have your career. Being able to have a family truly is a very limited
43:35
short short window. You can start your career if you have people and it’s amazing business. Have other people run
43:42
- You can still manage it. You can still pour into it, but you have your babies. And then once your babies are
43:48
grown and the nest is empty, go back to your career. There’s nothing wrong with that. If you don’t have a career, you
43:53
have your babies. The Lord’s going to inspire something inside of you that you’re like, you know what? There’s a problem. I have a solution. How many
43:59
baby companies have been born out of moms? you know, like the little carrier
44:04
seat or a stroller or we live for that carrier seat, right? 100%. I’m not trying to plug them
44:10
for like some things, so I’m just trying not to even say the name, but you understand my sentiment is that there’s
44:16
something really special and beautiful about making sure that you are the woman that your future husband deserves and
44:23
vice versa. Do not settle. Thank you. Thanks, Isabella. Up next, the emotional
44:30
moment that Erica Kirk forgave her husband’s alleged murderer. Stay with
44:35
- I forgive him.
44:51
I forgive him because it was what Christ did and is what Charlie would do.
45:00
Erica, that moment that we just watched was unforgettable. I was one of millions
45:07
of people across the world that watched you get up on that stage and forgive the
45:14
man who murdered your husband. And I think a lot of people looked at it
45:20
and thought this is incomprehensible. It’s almost it’s almost baffling. And I
45:26
want you to speak to those who are unable to understand really that act of
45:34
grace. How is it possible that you can forgive the person that murdered your husband?
45:44
I’m not forgetting what he did. I’m not condoning what he did. What he did is
45:51
sick and evil. So sick and evil. What I am doing is releasing myself
45:59
from the enemy’s hands where he could have a foothold in me.
46:06
and he could be able to just like I said earlier, you have a choice. Am I going
46:11
to take that moment? And I will never say anything I don’t mean. I really prayed on that moment.
46:17
That was that was a game time decision. I will never say what I don’t mean. But am I going to take that moment to say
46:25
rally the troops, burn the city down,
46:32
march in the streets, or am I going to take that moment and unleash something like we talked about even greater, more
46:39
powerful, and say it’s a revival and let that unleash and let the Lord
46:45
use it in ways that no one else could have ever imagined? If you were to meet the man, I won’t
46:52
name him again, accused of murdering your husband, do you know that what you
46:58
would say to him? Nothing. You would say nothing. I have nothing to say to you.
47:05
Nothing. Is there a difference, Erica, between forgiving someone in a religious and
47:13
spiritual sense, but also wanting justice for them here on earth? No, of course.
47:18
But we serve a just God. And I rest easy in knowing that he’s sovereign, but he’s
47:25
just. And so, let the Lord handle that.
47:31
I want to bring in our final audience question for tonight. I want to turn it over to Joe Lavoy.
47:39
Hi, thank you. Uh, your faith in this process has been inspiring and that inspires this question. Uh, how are you
47:46
able to trust God amidst unfair and immense suffering?
47:52
One of my favorite books in the Bible is the book of Job.
47:57
And what’s so powerful about that book is that you read it and you go along and
48:02
you say, “How could bad things happen to good people?”
48:08
But what happens at the end of that book? God does restore.
48:15
He does even more so than Job had prior. But but when did that happen?
48:22
It happened when Job prayed for his friends. Even though they were against him, even
48:27
though there was all this drama, he prayed for his friends. You can call
48:33
them enemies. That’s not saying, “Oh, Lord, my enemy is like,”No,
48:40
there is boldness in being able to say, “Lord, do what only you can do.”
48:46
And the Lord restored what Job had lost. That’s how
48:54
We’ll be right back.
49:02
I want to thank Erica Kirk so much for joining me tonight and I also want to thank our audience for participating in
49:08
this town hall. CBS News is going to have many more conversations like this
49:14
in the weeks and months ahead. So stay tuned. More town halls, more debates,
49:19
more talking about the things that matter. I’m Barry Weiss here in New York. Good night.
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